Speed of play.

Game: klondike
Game #: 501645888
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JS-Version: 2019-04-07_15:46:35_-0700_fd8dc0008ec81e4e5b7ec0e262803a256e5df53b

Please describe the problem in as much detail as possible:

How does a player make three or more moves a second?



  • there does not appear a way that the site moderators can separate the strictly manual players from the ones who have their computer solve it for them and enter that , saying it is their time in that they have the skills to set up such a method , those of us who prefer the real mano a mano eyes and finger speed can only guess at our relative skill sets comparing to others.

  • Hey @mistinask, a little free advice: speak not of what you know not of.

  • Ah! The laws of diminishing returns.Spent most of my life subject to them.

  • DEM please show me the scoring tablet for those who only play by using the keyboard manually, not combined with the scores of keyboard programmed assist.
    This is the first game mode , not the fastest submission of multiple attempts.
    Opinions are allowed and can spoken of without the necessity of sarcasm in addressing such concerns.

  • Woops! I'll leave you all to it then.I'm going to share a bottle of wine with Chris in the garden.It's a lovely evening here.We'll make sure Treacle is firmly fixed to an immovable object and away we go.Bye all.

  • @mistinask: you’re asking the wrong person for three reasons:
    1. I play entirely on tablets—all touch screen, no keyboard
    2. I have no idea what you mean by “keyboard programmed assist”
    3. I have no interest in showing you anything.

    You seem to be arguing that you should be allowed to state your opinion without a reply that you find objectionable. Well, your first post was not simply a statement of opinion, it was a snide, unfounded accusation (and a much different accusation than you levied in your second post). So, yeah, I responded with unmitigated sarcasm. And I stand by it.

    Until recently I was absolutely convinced that a player here was using some kind of software aid to improve his scores, probably a record/playback app like Re-Mouse. And I wasn’t shy about accusing him of it here on the forum. He eventually posted a video showing a truly impressive legit manual play—4 seconds, if memory serves. I remain embarrassed, even ashamed, of how I behaved. It’s a free world. You’re welcome to make the same mistake I did. But if you do, you better be prepared for righteous pushback, some of which might be sarcastic or otherwise bruise your sensibilities.

  • I do know how DoucheExMachina gets his scores.He plays only the game of the day repetitively without completing,until he gets his time down. I know this because I have played thousands of hands of free cell and I have never seen his name in the top ten.So either he only plays game of the day or he is really so slow that he never appears.

  • EasyZ , that's my point , playing repetitively is not first hand only; not your fastest one attempt result, I really do not care how fast or slow DEM is I would just like to see where I stand vis a vis others on a one go basis.
    Even repetitively I cannot see how it is physically possible to make 90-110 plays in 17secs or less without a program of some kind for your keyboard to make millisecond moves.
    DEM as to the bruised sensibilities comment that's not relevant , I only make a point which I believe in and do not require such passive aggressive arguing.

  • Hi @mistinask it is possible to make fast plays because the designers of Green Felt have created an option for all players to use called Super Moves. To read more about this function, click on the tab marked Show Rules above any Free Cell game and then click on the link for Super Moves. As you’ll see these moves are within the rules of the game. Some experienced players are very adept with high speed super moves.

  • mistinask I get you. I’m never fast enough to place.But as long as he doesn’t complete the game he can get his time way down by memory of what move goes next.17 seconds? I’ve seen him do it in 7.If he is that fast how can I have never played one hand with him?

  • Fingsaint I use super moves,you use super moves,we all use super moves.Einstein can’t finish the game of the day which is usually quite challenging,in 7 seconds using super moves

  • fingsaintfingsaint REGISTERED
    edited August 2019

    but video evidence proves to the contrary @EasyZ if you follow the debates on this forum ... hang on I’ll find a link for you

    Here’s one with a video:

  • The video evidence will not tell me how many times this player played without hitting auto finish.

  • Why does it bother you so much?

  • Here’s a quote from David (Green Felt Guy) when the videos of fast play were posted on another thread:
    @3bc: Thanks for the video! Thanks to videos like yours and the ones from @DeusExMachina, we've got video proof that the really really fast times aren't due to cheating (something we've continually said but not everyone believed :smile:). “

  • I think he or she(easyZ) is like me in that old fashioned fair play means to us that you only play the game once for the first time and that is you score as the faceplate states in the option you select for "fist time only, not your fastest"
    We would like to see where our first time go stands with all others who play by the rules of the score entry, multiple attempts are in essence cheating by finding how to around the wrong moves.
    The super moves from the thread above I did not know about, getting past the mid 70's in years is a bit of a disadvantage in getting down the 'puter understanding so I need to factor that into my thoughts now.

  • Cheers @mistinask enjoy your games :)
    As I’ve said before on this subject, we’ll have to agree to disagree. I see it as within the rules and not as cheating. It’s strategic play and open to everyone to try and find the fastest solution over any number of attempts.

  • I don’t want you to think it bothers me so much. I watched your video.l’m just saying l play this a lot. I like the game. I know when l’m playing with real people that finish in 30 seconds.These people play all the time.If you’re finishing in 5 seconds you are playing that hand over and over without hitting auto finish,they just hit replay until they memorize every step and can do it in 5 seconds. It doesn’t really bother me.It just is a waste of time for them and people like mistinask can never know where they place.

  • fingsaintfingsaint REGISTERED
    edited August 2019

    Fair enough @EasyZ . I play Free Cell every now and again and my times are well into minutes! But I do like having a go especially at the harder ones that are brought to notice on the ‘this game’s a bear’ thread. And I enjoy watching the super fast plays even though I can’t match them.

    Enjoy your games. :)

  • You to fingsaint

  • I promise never to question things again and just stay in my own world.
    Cheers all.

  • @mistinask: there’s nothing passive in my aggression

  • DeusExMachinaDeusExMachina REGISTERED
    edited August 2019

    @EasyZ (or if we want to start making fun of each other’s user names, how ‘bout OozyWee”?): you stated: “I know this because I have played thousands of hands of free cell and I have never seen his name in the top ten.So either he only plays game of the day or he is really so slow that he never appears.”
    I don’t question your premise that you’ve never seen me in the Top 10 for any game other than the game of the day. Either we play at different times or you’re not especially observant. All I can say is that (a) I play dozens of Freecell games on an average day, (b) I almost never play those games a second time, and (c) my time puts me in a game’s Top 10 list (by time) more often than not, and I commonly take the #1 slot. Of course, I have no idea whether I stay at the top or in the Top 10. It’s entirely possible that if you play a game later in the same hour, by which time other fine players have pushed me out.
    re: this assertion: “I do know how DoucheExMachina gets his scores.He plays only the game of the day repetitively without completing,until he gets his time down.” Wrong. I explain in this thread what my method is: https://forum.greenfelt.net/discussion/9163/hi-there-new-to-green-felt-enquiry-regarding-game-completion-times. I suspect you’ll object to that, too, and I’ll just have to find a way to live with your disapproval.

    @mistinask: as to your statement: “Even repetitively I cannot see how it is physically possible to make 90-110 plays in 17secs or less without a program of some kind for your keyboard to make millisecond moves.” When I was new to Green Felt, I also wondered how other players finished so fast. And it turns, you’re absolutely correct. The name of the program that makes millisecond moves is called “Green Felt.” I suspect you’ve heard of it; if not, I’d be happy to provide a link. Look specifically for the site’s Power Moves feature. The difference between you and me is that where you jumped to the conclusion that fast players cheat, I tried harder, learned how to make the most of Super Moves, and became one of those fast players.

    For the record, and as I have acknowledged freely and happily before (see my second May 7 post here: https://forum.greenfelt.net/discussion/8576/this-games-a-bear/p4), I make no claim to being the fastest Freecell player hereabouts. I can think of 3 to 5 players who routinely post faster times than me when we play the same games. When I manage to log a faster time than any of them, I consider it an accomplishment.

    And lastly, it doesn’t bother me that either of you think that I (and other more skilled players) are cheating. I care about the opinions of people who know me. You don’t. I’m responding here only because you’re spouting ill-informed accusations and making fools of yourselves, and I felt like calling you out on it. (Others did the same to me when I was railing against what I was confident was 3bc’s cheating; turns out they were right.)

  • DEM wow that was a long winded message. I don’t believe you.You are doing exactly as I said.while I don’t consider it to be cheating I do consider it to be childish behavior for someone I’m very sure is not a child.It’s not skill and it take you a long time to get the time down so low.Either way it doesn’t matter.what you don’t understand is it’s just a game.The only difference between you and I is that I hit auto finish a little bit faster than you do.Try to calm down it’s not the end of the world,it’s just a game.

  • Why so judgmental, @EasyZ?
    I enjoy the challenge of seeing how fast I can complete a game. Yes, that involves playing it repeatedly. (A) how is that childish, and (B) what’s it to you?
    And who made you the arbiter of what constitutes skill? I must’ve missed that election or coronation.
    You apparently prefer playing a different way. Great! Play on and enjoy. To each her own.
    And thanks for the concern over my stress level, but I’m plenty calm. Like I said, I care nothing for what you think.


    @EazyZ: Don't accuse people of lying.
    @DeusExMachina: "I care nothing for what you think" is very dismissive and comes across ruder than maybe you meant it.
    Everyone please be polite and try take the most charitable reading of others comments.

  • Alright. I’m sorry for upsetting you. I was just trying to explain how you do this so fast.You’re right.To each his own. Don’t be mad and I’ll keep my comments to myself.

  • Think about how silly this is: “I was just trying to explain how you do this...”
    Just how exactly do you think you know better than I how I do it.
    And why are you even arguing this trivial point? I’ve publicly admitted that I practice the GotD and I’ve explained exactly how I bend the rules to record a fast time (in a different thread which I believe I linked to). Yet for some reason you continue to insist that my allocution is untrue. That takes a certain kind of absurd conceit of omniscience.

  • DEM , as Luddite in the 'puter world and pushing the high 70's in age I am not well versed in super moves and such things.
    What is this link you talk about ?
    I was referring to using only the mouse and making millisecond moves manually, I still maintain a large percentage make more than one attempt to solve a game and apparently there is a way you can do it using different address names, so if the use of the word "cheating" upsets you how about they do not conform to the first play not fastest play rule to the frustration of us that do ?

  • Oh dear me some of you have certainly got your knickers in a twist. It is too bad that a forum that should be enjoyable is so full of rancor.
    Please put down your written weapons and make this forum enjoyable for all of us.

  • Here you go. This is the link I was referring to: https://greenfelt.net/

    As to me and others who game the system corrupting the leader board by some manner of practicing the GotD before recording A score, I no longer play Freecell, so take it up with other offenders.

  • Ta mate !

  • i got somethings to say .. .. .. first, let me remind y'all that this is a site for playing SOLITAIRE, games that are played by one person for the enjoyment of that person, how often and with what nics i play a game is MY CHOICE and nobody else's, if u don't like the way i play then that's just tuff, grow up and get over it .. .. .. second, competition can bring out the best in people, unfortunately, it can also bring out the worst, as witnessed by those comparing themselves to others on the leaderboard, then posting accusations of cheating here in the forum .. .. .. Deus, being the most accused, has been honest and forthright to explain his process for winning at freecell, even taking the time to record and post vids that show his technique, but instead of showing gratitude for these teaching tools, he has been slandered to the point where he quit playing freecell altogether .. .. .. which brings me to my third, and final comment, directed to david and jim .. .. .. since the integrity of this site is ur responsibility, accusations of cheating ultimately fall on ur heads, so nip it in the bud, dudes.. .. .. posting is a privilege, using this forum for name-calling and slandering of players should be rewarded with a one-way ticket to mumsville, in my opinion

  • A thoughtful reply. I am sorry Deus is stopping freecell. Bullies abound I guess. Maybe the only way to satisfy some is to go back to when the server was off and the only score available was your own.

  • The fact that you cant see how something can be done is totally irrelevant to the fact of whether it can be done. It just means you don't understand all the possibilities.

  • @tucsonsky ...I'll agree with your first two points, but people are entitled to their own opinions... and david and jim have better things to do than adding 'forum police' to their busy resumes..We are grown-ups and I would hope we could act accordingly. Besides, I have too much fun snapping these knuckleheads back a notch or two.

  • I am also a mouse-click player and, of course, can't compete with the touch screen speedsters. I set my own goal and am perfectly happy with it: score in the top 5%. If I actually make the top ten overall I'm really thrilled. Truth be told, though, most people probably don't scrutinize the top ten list.

    I too have often wondered if there were a way to distinguish between the two types of players, but I realize how improbable (even impossible) that is. So find a goal that makes you happy and go for it, especially since nobody but you really cares about your score anyway, or, more likely, nobody will even look intently at the list if their own name isn't on it.

  • Since this thread resurfaced yet again, I'll take the opportunity to call out a distinction betw. two fundamentally charges of cheating:
    1. Employing some kind of computer assist to either solve games or to execute the solutions at superhuman speed. I do nothing of the kind and have no reason to think that anybody else around here is, either. It doesn’t bother me if others suspect or even accuse me of this manner of cheating because I know the truth.
    2. gaming the leader board to get around the “first score.” I can think of at least 3 or 4 ways of doing this, and I freely admit to using one of them routinely for over a year. Clues on the leader board make it clear to me that I’m not the only one.
    I would not take issue with those who consider such gaming of the system to be cheating. But I would challenge them, before judging others, to take a few beats to consider where exactly they draw the line between a legitimate and illegitimate score. If practicing a game to completion under a pseudonym or while logged out crosses the line, what about practicing (while logged in) and just pulling up short of completing the game until you’re satisfied with your speed? What about hitting Replay partway through just because your solution wasn’t developing fast enough? Or because you made a mistake and prefer to start over rather than lose time using Undo? Or because the path you chose hit a wall?
    Now, take another minute to consider that, while you can be quite confident that a player like me who routinely recorded sub-10 second scores was doing one of these things, you have absolutely no way of knowing whether any of the others in the Top 10 did likewise but were content to move on when the got down to the 20 or 30 second mark.
    And lastly, ask yourself why, since you simply cannot know which scores are legitimate by your definition, you are wasting a precious second of your finite life even thinking about any of this, much less getting upset about it.

    As to whether this forum exchange (and another in a similar vein recently) factored into my decision to stop playing Freecell, my take is, “Nah.” I’d been edging toward the door for months. Combo of been-there-done-that-itis and spending too much time at it (and not enough on more rewarding pastimes). If anything can be credited with me finally stepping through the door, it was the thread in which JackofHearts/Gameguy shared a video on Hopeless. That’s become my new addiction (so much for more rewarding pastimes, huh?) Wish me luck kicking this new habit and getting on with (a) investing myself in getting better at wood turning, and (b) documenting that learning process on a YouTube channel, “Learnin’ to Turn” under the monicker Beau LeGouge 😉

  • It's just a game boys and girls,for you'r own enjoyment.That's all it is.Play on and enjoy.

  • I’m sorry DEM doesn’t play free cell anymore.I’m truly sorry if I had anything to do with that.Shizi is back.I’ve missed him.

  • graeme said it best Play on and enjoy, my motto in ever game or different games on this site I play regardless of outcome is to just have fun!!!!

  • Well said riverrat55.I think we should all have a strong cup of tea...........perhaps a chocolate biscuit?I'm off for my lunch now.Bye all.

  • Hi @graeme and @riverrat55 I know that you mean well and want to instil calm but we should let commentators have the space to say how they feel

    Biscuits and tea and play on is a soft way of shutting down other voices

    A bit like me telling you to play on ;)

  • Very nicely and gently put fingsaint. On a related note, it can be frustrating to WANT to have a conversation and to have others come in with personal messages to one another. It really defuses the topic. We could always start a new thread for fun chit chat type stuff maybe. Or use one anothers' in-boxes.

  • amen to that fingsaint and Imposter B)

  • Soooo...what you're saying is stick to the original topic of the thread and don't just agree with what has been said and say 'hi' to your friends...got it.

  • Well, I'm suggesting to contribute to (and not divert or squelch or dismiss) the topic of the thread. Agree if you want. Disagree. Add a point. You can also say hi to your friends as long as you further the designated conversation.

    And yes, I see the irony of saying this in a thread about game speed... Perhaps we should start a new thread.

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